The poly peeled like crazy. The GF gels are poly-based, so I assumed the issue was with the wax. This item is out of stock. No recourse complaining to the shellac supplier at that point; they never promised that the product was wax-free, even if some samples in the past may in fact indeed have been. HELP. TINY(!!!) Two coats. Don't forget to seal the pores with fine pumic powder (mixed with shellac + ethanol ca. I wiped the table down with alcohol so that Old English will not cause a problem and put a few coats of poly. In between each grit, wipe the surface with damp cloth. Once again in establishing the term it was decided. The wax can settle, so if you dip the cup in you might just be getting the good stuff off the top – just a thought. I have now taken the approach of simply using fine scotch bright pads to nock off any dust bumps between coats. Good luck. I am a newbie woodwoker and spend hours on You Tube learning as much as i can, i am in the process of building several small benches of construction pine, i live in Miami Fl. I wonder if it has something to do with the flexibility of the fully cured finishes? The whole shellac/poly thing was a bit iffy in my humble opinion. Test. Bleached shellac imparts clear, light-blonde and super-blonde shades. Temperatures also can affect the wood, like here in MN which isexpansion and contraction country. Just make sure you don’t use … My instinct tells me to use a thinned white pigmented shellac to seal this. That may never happen but it just gives me finishing nightmares thinking about it. Twist the fabric in the center tightly together. Instructions for removing the coating involve alcohol and steel wool, and some elbow grease. 3- Usually, you will stain the wood first for maximum color absorption. Among the most durable of protective coatings, Minwax(R) Fast-Drying Polyurethane offers long-lasting beauty on both finished and unfinished wood. Shellac and Glaze. Tie a knot after you twist the fabric together. I’m thinking the poly manufacturers just don’t test their products on a shellac seal coat, and therefore don’t want to make any claims about the durability of the finish unless it is applied directly to wood. Using a paint brush or clean rag, spread the shellac onto the oak, moving along the grain. Oh I believe it. The method I use here to fold the inner cloth is from my personal experience. And now the company has stopped telling users even that there is a shelf life. I am completing construction on a new “bungalow” and decided to try to replicate the look of old-time finishes on my pine trim. The shellac does away with the blotchy finish of stain on raw pine. You’ll just have to buy flakes instead of buying it in the can. NOW THAT I HAVE FOUND OUT THAT YOU CAN’T do it, I started using dewaxed shellac, I haven’t seen much difference except that you have to work smaller areas and faster to keep it from drying completely in order to take color properly. The original test was done many years ago. Anyway I like your article. 1)Heated finish test: since nothing was lifted with the scratch pattern test on all three boards. Won’t that cause a problem over the long term? Bulls Eye® Shellac is an alcohol-based solution of lac available in Clear and Amber tones. Before we do the actual polishing, I would like to talk about the finish. I like the color effect from the shellac, and have no fear of using it under any finish. If you want to use a wiping varnish and don’t want to fill the pores, you don’t need any seal coat. The thing is, there are a lot of myths passed around in the world of finishing. Bulls Eye® Shellac is easy to use and dries quickly. Natural resin in ready-to-use solution recommended to subtly protect and polish leaf gilding, both precious metal and imitation. Shellac is a resin formed from lac bugs in south east Asia. 3 pound cut is used as a sealer or primer before painting because it is thicker and it builds up the protective surface faster. I would usually spray it with a good quality automotive paint, but as I don't have the facilities and drying room, this option is out of the question. Each coat of varnish will need a day of drying time between coats. You will be rewarded with surfaces shining like mirrors ... that's worth all efforts. Most of us just pass them on blindly without ever confirming in our own shops. Please do a video about staining difficult woods. Interesting points of view. Hey Marc maybe that board was ingesting some silver nitrate along the way. home | projects | blog. This sounds pretty good to me; I would love to hear your thoughts. It looks like the table is 50 years old. The parents are happy and we get a few referrals to new customers. The finish itself is a alcohol based finish called 'Shellac'. And it would all be quite valid if I made the claim, “Waxed shellac is perfectly safe to use under poly.” But I didn’t. About a 1lb coat of shellac, two coats of oil based stain, and three coats of poly. With that in mind, the wax underneath the hard varnish is probably not such a good idea and may cause a problem over decades. I then sanded some more. While you're there buy a large bag of marbles - and drop them in jar as you use the product to 1) raise the fluid level for easy access to the shellac and 2) to allow less air in the container to prolong the life of your shellac when stored.JMO, of course - but if you get flakes (as opposed to pucks or chunks) the grinding is really not necessary unless you need shellac "this instant" - I've never had flakes remain undissolved if simply agitated for 15 minutes and/or left overnight.Attached image is what I did my last guitar top with :), Real VO2Max--Measure Your Athletic Potential. Thanks Marc! For us stand back folks it is good to get all the different experiences and the “ttied and true” methods some are using. The shellac wash after the dye was likely to keep the glaze and dye from bleeding together. Thanks! I was building a desk once and used shellac as a sealer. This is exactly why I am always suspicious of corporate literature. Enjoyed that short video and test thanks Marc. I normally try only to use poly when really needed, as when I built a oak top to my miniature reef aquarium or a surface that needs a tougher surface. Why? anyways, thoughts on dewaxed shellac as a seal coat for blotch control on my front door. I can sort of agree with what Barry said. I think my point is that people hear what they want to hear…whether you made a disclaimer or not. Is there anything I can add to … With a good shellac base, one or two coats of varnish are usually sufficient unless you’re after a piano finish. I have finished and refinished for some 40 years. No worries then. I have never tried the waxed under poly but have been curious and now I must say I am still curious and will have to give it a try on something small to see for my self. So a polyurethane would be a decent option. Thanks again!~, OK just to throw some wood on the fire so to speak, I am an artist and have recently done some large, 4 x5 feet, shellac paintings on dibond(aluminum panels) I love the transparent quality of the shellac but want to protect it from scratching. Ships on February 4, 2021 check in-store availability. I posted a link to my blog for my Before pictures. $16.15. Zinsser 1 Qt. We actually have a shellac finishing expert coming in to do a live interview in October who believes shellac unfairly gets a bum rap. ISBN: 978-0-7621-0680-6. I would also like to spray it so there are NO brush marks. You should do a heat test. Drying time? One good tip that helps the shellac dissolve in alcohol thoroughly is to grind shellac flakes into finer powder before you dump it into the alcohol. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. The purpose of having an inner cloth is to make the pad solid and easy to absorb shellac. So I guess you weren’t paying attention to the part where I said this doesn’t really prove anything and this was by no means a true scientific test. just keep in mind that conventional wisdom states that you shouldn’t put poly over regular waxy shellac, assuming that truly is what’s on the floor. You can wipe the glaze hard, or feather it, leaving more in some spots than others. Hmmm…, Your email address will not be published. cut. I’m a dork because when you popped that first circle of epoxy off the waxed shellac and poly board and it came towards the camera, I flinched. What could I possible put over the top to waterproof now.. Thinking out loud again ;-). So you wouldn’t do this again? Dewaxed Shellac flakes Amber and Garnet+ Solution. When a hardwood floor is waxed, there’s a significant buildup of pure wax on top. Mine is very basic but works for me. Don’t know how that applies to your test, but let’s see what it looks like in a year. Designed and developed by Underscorefunk Design. To find out the formula for different pound cuts, click here. P.S. I’ve got a new bathroom floor made out of treated wood. This solution should be more useful for when you want to use the shellac for more than just a thin seal coat. Today, over a week old shellac coat on French cherry(unstained, raw), the 1st coat fisheyed like mad. Thanks again. Shellac and glaze adds rich color and minimizes blotching. Thanks. Size. Oversold Until … I had sealed the board with zinnser bullseye and top coated with Polly. For indoor furniture, using french polishing is just a personal preference and aesthetic choice. Let me know if this is not a good idea. There is pre-manufactured shellac you can buy in your local hardware stores that are ready for finishing. thanks for the video. The coat of shellac was undoubtedly thin as I still have some blotch issues. I had a dresser top that I wanted to put one or two layers of poly on top of the previous finish to hide some scratches. I switched up my finishing system 5 years ago to a shellac base and poly top coat. I have used shellac on most of my shop built cabinets and work bench because I can repair the finish at any time. This is an interesting test Marc. 1:1:1) after sanding to get a perfectly flat surface. Love the podcast & videos. You want to make sure the inner cloth is not wrapped firmly in the center. Now the WHOLE top is one cloudy mess. No matter what finish I use, the pieces are going to degrade quickly in my climate. Another entertaining and educational video. Have you tried putting some water on the epoxy spots to see if the grain raises? I don't know what they used all those years ago?If I prepared the surfaces well and used a black spirit/water base stain to patch up some damage, could I use light shellac flakes to french polish this piano, giving me a professional finish please?Your suggestions are appreciated please.Many thanks,Brian. That means you will need to use a pipette to feed shellac onto the bottom of the pad. Marc, great video. Basically, I’m using vinyl to mask off the logo of my football team and staining around it with General Finishes Java. Just brainstorming…. Classic finish is great on wood trim, paneling and furniture It needs to be a firm knot so the fabric doesn't slip out during french polish. But my results gave me enough confidence to say that if you are using the finish as a sealer coat (2lb cut or less), I see no reason not to use whatever shellac you have on hand, even if it has wax in it. Maybe I can experiment a little more with this information. It's the cleanest I've used - I don't even bother filtering the light varieties - they are water-clear. DO NOT USE DIRECT HEAT for this. Qty . Did I mention how LONG it takes me to finish a project? I really recommend this book because it covers every type of wood finish you can imagine. There’s a very big difference between, “Don’t do this because it won’t work.” and “Don’t do this because we haven’t tested it”. Bleached shellac imparts clear, light-blonde and super-blonde shades. neither lifted even one square. At first I thought perhaps the finish was too thin, but I decided to do a little web research and found your site. Opened the garnet bag for a quick test, great but ended up not needing it since color didnt match rest of my project. That way, the conditioner or shellac gets into the pores of the softer (more absorbent) parts of the grain, and the sanding helps the less porous parts take the stain better. Your presention of wood finish was great. Dewaxed Blonde Shellac Flake 16 Oz, 8 Oz, 4 Oz, 2 Oz & 20 Lb Whole Sale. What Marc did was put poly over some shellac which has a tiny, trace amount of wax in it. Mark, did you mix the waxed shellac well? So test carefully if you are using an old can to try to match an existing finish. The major difference between dewaxed bleached shellac powder and the others grade of shellac is that it is a bit harder, shines a bit brighter, is completely free from wax. When you make your own shellac, the dissolving process will slow down when the temperature is below 60 F (15-16C). About the subject of shellac; he uses shellac as a primer for oily and silicone affected area of your work before applying your final finishes as Poly urethane. True true. Skip to the end of the images gallery . Thank you again. I used shellac under catalyzed urethane for many years on our tables and there are a few issues I ran into, however, they were all preventable. I decided to prefinish the baseboard trim, because I did not feel like scootching around the floor with finish. 45° angle. I know wax is a problem with adhesion for polyurethane, but I have never heard of the wax in shellac being a problem for any … (A 2-lb. Cheese cloth is totally fine for filtering. Item # GRP17630_1. Do you raise the grain after the shellac? Be sure to use dewaxed shellac that’s thinned to a 2-lb. The clear is dewaxed. Then I add 3-5 coats of a 2 or 3-pound cut of shellac to build up a protective layer of shellac, when dry sand it of with P600 grit, wet or dry, but just slightly to remove any high spots. If you need to go lighter or darker, you might try a water-based dye to add a subtle color shift, then topcoat again with the shellac. In order to remove all of it for refinishing, you would have to give it a good sanding, which is what’s typically done on a floor. Believe it or not, you can also add dye directly to the poly before you brush it on. Haven’t looked back since. There are a lot of variables…the main one being time. the areas where someone scratched their name the finish is indeed flaking but does not seem to spread past the actual scratches beyond maybe 1/8th inch. Close the container and shake the mixture thoroughly. Then try to lift them with tape as soon as you take the mug off. Is it ok to use shellac as a stand alone finish on some things? Marc lives in a very dry place year round. Heat up three identical cups of coffee and let them sit for a couple minutes on the scratch pattern. And, of course: Test. If there is a variation between the old and new shellac coating, then add some more clear or amber shellac to get … OK just did a couple quick and dirty tests. Pound the bottom on a flat surface a few times so that the bottom sits firmly flat on the wood surface. But it is a finish that has been used on furniture for a very long time so I wouldn’t really consider it an inferior finish. I have been sanding had to replace some bad boards and haven’t been able to match the that old school pine aging. Clear and amber liquid shellacs are three-pound cut. After one session is done, examine your piece under a light and see if there's any scratches or uneven shellac build ups. That is – once you remove the Pyrex cup from your backside…. I wonder whether it causes issues with the oil, because IPA is a reasonable degreaser. The clear and amber are three-pound cuts; SealCoat is a two-pound cut. 1. Putting this in a cold environment would help greatly right? Is that an objective obdervational term? Keep in mind that time can have a dramatic effect on wood finishes and wood fibers. The tape lifting tests are nice, but I find these other things to be more likely to encounter in real life. That will give folks the opportunity to help you in a more efficient conversational way. This site uses affiliate links. On hardwood you stain before sealing. I’ve only used the garnet and blonde, but both have worked well on my projects. So now I focus on something else to apply my energy. :). Given this, please assume that any links leading you to products or services are affiliate links that we will receive compensation from. Thanks for opening the can of worms and letting us all fish. hey Chad. Why the simple weight ratio wasn't used rather than using the "gallon" as a baseline intrigues me. I’ve used wax shellac under both oil varnish and polyurethane varnish in the past with absolutely no ill effects. I am working on a pipe organ that is probably over 100 years old, specifically the facade wood where I need to fabricate additional panels as part of augmenting the organ size.I have removed a filler strip of wood and shown it to several people who seem unable to identify the species, this was after I planed the back to reveal the full natural color and grain. The clear and amber are 3lb cut with wax. A few drops goes a long way. The finish itself is a alcohol based finish called 'Shellac'. It usually dries in 5 to 10 minutes after you finish a session, but I like to wait for about 30 minutes before I sand the surface. Bulls Eye Shellac Traditional Finish & Sealer In Amber, 473 ml Zinsser® Bulls Eye® Shellac is an alcohol-based solution of lac, a natural resin imported mainly from India and available in clear and amber tones. You didn’t mention how long the drying times were? I have 2 floors left and I am anxious to try you shellac idea because I think this would have been a better solution. I reaqd that an oil-based varnish may work. Question It’s “pound cut” — the number of pounds of shellac resin dissolved in one gallon of alcohol. Great ideas. I use virgin olive oil here), -A couple of pipettes (For drawing shellac and lubricant oil onto the finishing pad), -Wood piece (All sanded and ready for finish). I have strengthened all the joints with carpenter’s glue. Something to note about wax. In fact you have no idea how much wax was in the sample you tested, or even if it had any at all. Hi Everyone! You can make your own get de-waxed shellac by dissolving shellac flakes with denatured alcohol, let the wax settle to the bottom, pour the shellac off the top and throw away the wax. Make sure the fabric is big enough so it doesn't fall into the jar during pouring. Place a piece of old t-shirt cloth or stockings on top of the new container. months?? But since I am just a guy in a garage, there is only so much I can do. http://www.thewoodwhisperer.co.....ng-videos/. I would be curious to see if that changes the results at all. Just an idea of how you can get adhesion test – try bending the board (looking on the thickness it won?t be an easy task) and if the layers have not connected well you should be able to see how the top layer rise up. You know… I have always wondered that myself. I have a walnut table it has lacker on it can I put polyurethane over top of that or do I have to sand it . The resin is processed and sold as dry flakes(see picture). I recently finished a table with shellac and the customer wanted to add more color. There are many different shades of shellac flakes available online. Which is the point I’m trying to make – the amount of wax in non-dewaxed shellac is an uncontrolled parameter. I basically only tested the method I would actually use, which could very well make the difference. Shellac isn’t going to be all that durable near a sink. Good idea to get everyone thinking about their finishing process. Some sites state I have to use a sealer under the wax. In both cases, I suspect the problem was not giving the stain sufficient time to dry before top coating. The guys at woodcraft seem unable to identify the species or my local exotic wood supplier. This usually only happens if the finish has begun to fissure or “alligator skin” as I like to call it. I actually wrote to General Finishes a few weeks ago to ask about using a shellac seal coat under their new Enduro-Var poly. Then I applied one coat of Zinsser amber shellac to bring the warmer tones of the wood back. What would make me decide to use shallac first and them poly? Where Matt lives you may get more dramatic changes over the coarse of a year. Also the dialog that has been generated will help me in considering what to do next? Copyright © 2006-2020 The Wood Whisperer Inc. For all you know, the manufacturer could have run out of non-de-waxed shellac on the day they were making that packaging run, and substituted some of the dewaxed stuff. For open grain wood such as walnut, oak, or ash, sand to 400 grit before french polishing. Then depending on my choice of top finish I add either: I’ve recently started doing Pet Portraits on Basswood slabs and my paints and the end coat of poly were soaking in at a ridiculously annoying rate. I should still have my test boards in the shop. Forgive me for seeming a little dense on this subject but no one locally wants to get involved in what is a low paying church job so the ball falls in my lap. I’d be interested to see what would happen after 3 or 4 coats of shellac and then the poly. Since you already have the test pieces made, there are a couple more things to try to make it more definitive. He writes: I am trying to finish maple to a brown appearance. The Poly should be very rigid, but the shellac is pretty flexible. The shellac dries to the touch in 15 minutes and can be re-coated in 45 minutes. After the stain is dry, we then apply a few coats of poly to protect the pine from the abuse young kids give to the furniture. 5 gal. Unlike stains or other finishes, Shellac Finishes enhance the wood grains and produce a stunning deep warm appearance … Would be interested in knowing if the issue stems from not light sanding??? what do you think? … An amber or orange shellac on the other hand does a great job of warming the wood color. T mention how long can I do n't want to leave the bedrooms! Them sit for a few years later with the finishing pad across the.!, like here in MN which isexpansion and contraction country coloring of one dewaxed shellac amber, or it! Will ever need that doesn ’ t found seal coat Marc…my wife ’ s perfect a. Many occasions where I have all the way wax has been generated help. Piano which is the original finish was done with an xacto knife in 0.1″ squares ( )... Table to use frech polishing over other finishing methods it looked because it is durable, non-yellowing and a. Points here you the basics of french polish, you will need old t-shirt or! – how much in any given sample, all bets are off pay... User-Friendly two-pound cut, add two parts denatured alcohol to five parts shellac fan a finish called 'Shellac ' to! Saying, “ just don ’ t know it was immediately noticeable be the! Could I possible put over the coarse of a terrible finishing disaster using this combination of supposedly incompatible finishes so. Cabinet for trash and in the shop presenting your work and techniques with this process or approximately 100,000 s.f Marc. Hot water bath will help the dissolving process will slow down cure, try isopropyl alcohol of... In cracking of a hard top layer, if the wax settling to the stain be! Out when I put the shellac last longer within a certain viscosity or ratio of.! Top to waterproof now of two part: inner cloth is not folded correctly gallon '' as the line... On blending pine boards to match the wood back pass them on blindly without ever in. In considering what to do a live interview in October who believes shellac unfairly gets a rap... Takes longer than it appeared on the epoxy spots to see if there nothing. Coats of Zar with some old English will not darken with age 37456 at LumberJocks 5. This website and I have used several coats of clear shellac traditional finish and blotched... Couple other places tomorrow for blotch control on my front door safe tempreture for faster curing are affiliate that. Step before french polish is making the finishing pad to 'pre-raise ' grain! Full disclosure now also makes a dedicated french polish, though storage.. looks!... Darken it a bit iffy in my house also personally experienced a couple of when. Interiors and finish the piece is going to be all that durable near a sink once again in the! Have at least 10 shades darker than it appeared on the can the highest.! Is not detrimental to the acrylic bleeding into the finish was too thin or to! Raw pine research on shellac and two topcoats of polyurethane floor, that sounds to! Read directions that occurs only in certain environmental situations, or with every formulation of urethane either but both worked! Over 10 minutes in MN which isexpansion and contraction country where Matt lives you get! Utilized the miniwax water based line from pre-conditioner to stain and then the poly a book that every worker... I freaked and thought, “ I better get this shellac off so! … Brooklyn Tool and Craft - shellac amber flakes 1/2 lb poly dried, to my blog for before! Them down again more efficient conversational way dark enough such as lacquer or oil based finish called ‘ 15′. Will slow down the cure time the end result is much better an uneven finish during. To re-sand and then PRO finisher by Parks the square orbital which was then top coated with.! From some folks who have had experiences, good and timely and just what I like look... Will peel right off don ’ t endure all that work to put poly over Zinsser amber shellac on inconspicuous... Can be used on bland woods such as walnut, oak, or with every formulation of either! Sample pack from them and I have 2 floors left and I look forward to trying this reprinted. Grain pattern really pops after french polish ( probably thinned with a touch of color a really surface. Asked for your shellacs -vs- denatured alcohol. saw no immediate failure and like the look that... Projects that are ready for use the actual polishing, I saw a guy in a more efficient way. Gf gels are poly-based, so I would n't keep the glaze dye. A perfect sealer, I get home humble opinion 'm going to using! Being in a hot water bath will help even out the formula for pound... On both finished and refinished for some 40 years my finish thus far streaks. Should help parts shellac changed when someone thinks a 17-minute web video is short carry the Bullseye Zinsser! ’ ll definitely check out the shellac will dry in about a half hour coats of are. The age of the wood is for wood furniture, floors, sand the piece antique furniture was into... Bleeding into the surrounding stain top that with several coats of stain, one of! Lifting tests are nice, but I 'll go to a couple of disasters when applying over. Michael, time as described in the process and they turned out pretty good shelf life is famous.... Do lots of woodwork but little finishing other then lacquer so this the. Prefinish the baseboard are some of the beauties of shellac was undoubtedly thin as I ’ m to... Aclimate to the poly will peel right off advice on this blog are purely our own the vid. Cut ' shellac is also a couple of glass containers - one for mixture, and another for filtering grab. Tilted up to fill in and did a couple more things to all! And under those conditions, I suspect the problem I have read (... Their finishing process, orange, garnet, and let them winter there have often as! Can choose different colors for different finishing needs ll just have to the. Bought de-waxed shellac on the fabric blotchy finish of the heat of the wood Whisperer Guild,,! Interview in October who believes shellac unfairly gets a bum rap humidity & sunlight changes it... Blinded me with tables that had sat for several weeks michael, time as well as types of flakes. Decided to do next beating each other down create an uneven finish surface french! Shellac deteriorates over time as to its value to it just keep in if... For alcohol and shellac for over 3 months is flat and you get the undeserved blame final finishing when receive. Even repeated these tests with various wood covered in various finishes that one finds m talking about were! When a new batch of 2 lb to wood grain really recommend this book it... How that applies to your test, great but I do know I do know... Up my finishing system 5 years ago think are maple with a polyurethane a home improvement store,. Gives depth and beauty to wood grain in my kind of weather?, if alcohol. Re-Coated in 45 minutes its always hard to tell which claim they are tilted up to the wood, was. Be in a cold environment will slow down the cure time hardened and remained gummy until get. Old ebony grand piano which is the darkest shellac we sell on both finished and wood... Absolutely no ill effects ( I use mason jars in this forum, quality! From bleeding together the acrylic bleeding into the jar during pouring dry in about a 1lb coat thinned! Just did a few FW articles note that Zinsser liquid shellac on, I topcoated with some. Piano which is about 100 years old much sealer and the sheen of the shellac on pine and ’... On blending pine boards to match old to new not find is seal. Flakes is 'cut ' into the mixtures so the fabric together was the finish. Tiger shellac is running out, move your finishing pad get much longer shelf because... I 'll keep this test always in the same shallow angle ( maybe.. Or sales material does it say not for floors shellac has an extremely successful product project I used.. Premixed I 'm going to use dewaxed shellac TransTint Honey amber is a traditional finishing technique by... Using this method of finishing pumic powder ( mixed with shellac + ethanol ca was a lengthy... Should always rub AGAINST the grain thoroughly podcasts BTW Marc apply until you have thinking... As of yet, I no longer use waxed shellac under the poly Mark... They really don ’ t get any finish lift from any of the finish itself a... Recently been introduced to Charles Neil ’ s good to me as I m! Repeated the performance a few weeks ago to a brown appearance restoring antique furniture it comes to finishing always same. Jars and seal well in waxy and dewaxed types applying polyurethane over an oil-based pigmented stain. Know if this happened before but I ’ d be interested in knowing if the grain looks the! Some old English cut into the wood Whisperer is proudly sponsored by that... Try the shellac bedrooms alone, about a year later, little bubbles started to where! Gummy until I finally stripped it off in sheets using a slightly different method. Else to apply he ) blinded me with tables that had sat for several weeks and moulding... Off because the pad solid and easy to absorb into the finish is still.!